Public Meeting


Dallas, Texas


February 2, 1981

(Stelle Forum #1)



In Precipitation, How Are the Astral and Etheric Planes Related?

QUESTION: In terms of precipitation, could you describe the linkage between the Astral Plane and the Etheric Plane?


RICHARD KIENINGER: Things donít exist on the Physical Plane until they first exist on the Etheric Plane. But there is no direct linkage between the Etheric and Astral. Itís the human mind or above, you know, Angelic, Archangelic and Celestial Mind, whoever happens to owns the generating equipment which we call Mind, and it has nothing to do with the brain; it has to do with the Mind, It is the Mind that has the direct effect on the Etheric Plane. There is a close linkage between the second and the fourth planes of existence.


What Effect Does Inflation Have on Karmic Accountancy?

Q: What effect does inflation have on karmic accountancy? Meaning to say, you borrow money today, say ten dollars, inflation is at 14 percent and it goes up. What effect does that have?


RK: Itís on the value.


Q: On the value at the time of borrowing?


RK: Yes. And what it can buy. And also type of payback.


Q: So therefore, in a sense, if you were to pay back the debt in rising inflation, you would have to pay back more, which would be equal, to balance it out.


RK: Yes, sir.


What Were the Homes of Lemurians Like?

Q: Could you describe the home of a Lemurian citizen at the height of the Lemurian Empire?


RK: What would be in that home?


Q: Architecturally, how would it be laid out? Did people understand the effect of geometry on their state of mind?


RK: It would be almost impossible for them not to, I would think, considering the number of really advanced individuals they had at that time. There never was anything called Brothers in those days, because there were no Brotherhoods, but there were those individuals who had achieved the advancement equivalent to Adepts and Masters. They, of course, would have been aware of such relationships. The homes that were built in those days were built to last between ten and twenty thousand years and they were made primarily of keyed stone blocks. The base of the outside walls of the home was maybe four feet by six feet, tapering anywhere to two to three feet at the top. They would be painted stucco or something of that sort and would be updated every thirty years or something of that order to continue the bright, well-kept appearance of the buildings. The roofs, I suppose, had to be replaced every century or half-century. As some new things would come up for windows, those would be changed. Various new surfaces might be thought of, like Iím sure that when indoor plumbing concepts came along, all the houses would be adapted to that. Electricity was used in the same way we use it. It also could be adapted to those homes. But they just went on, and on and on. They lasted forever, essentially. But the walls were kind of permanently shaped; you know, slanted on the outside and straight up and down on the inside, And the windows were set near the interior wall rather than the outside wall, so that you had shading when necessary. It was just a tremendous fitness of those blocks. Howling winds, hail, and what-have-you would just not perceived in a house built that sturdily. Most homes were built kind of in a hacienda style. The family life consisted of forty, sixty members or something that sort. Generally speaking, with a common eating place and kitchen, with separate apartments for various members of the family in there, spouses and children. They had sort of a common area where they could get together. The family was a fairly good-sized unit and was considered the microcosm of government. It was run much the same way. Very strictly adhered-to rules, and politeness and how to get along with one another in effective ways.


Q: There was a blood relationship between these forty or sixty people?


RK: Yes. Well, except for the spouses that were brought in from the outside.


Q: How about the roof line of the house in terms of architecture ?


RK: Mostly slanted. At first they were flat roofs, but it didnít take very long before they realized the advantages of the sloped roof, and particular the idea of having a flat ceiling inside and a sloped roof over that so that air can pass back and forth. The sun wouldnít eat things up too badly inside because it would be heating up air that was in the ventilated space between the roof and the ceiling. That innovation was figured out a long, long time ago. It was very logical.


How Do Healing Energies Work?

Q: Could you comment forms of manipulation? When a person works on the physical body of another to release tensions or maybe some type of injury, what type of energy transference is there, or is there any?


RK: Yeah, there really is, and what it amounts to is we can move energies throughout our bodies just by decidingóyou know, our own energies inside our own body, to make them move according to where we want them to go. Let me see if I can think of a good example that would apply to most peopleís experience, Most people donít get into that sort of thing, but if you are trying to heal somebody, what you are doing is causing love thoughts to modify your energies and flow towards that other person. The great healing force is Love, and if youíre able to consciously work this up into a strong feeling within yourself and then direct it consciously towards that personís illness, then you actually are healing.


And every person is capable of doing that. Most mothers, as a matter of fact, unconsciously, when soothing their little ones, will do just exactly that. So one must never have feelings of fear or apprehension when you are trying to comfort a little one because thatís what comes through, and that makes them even more upset. The feeling of love and goodwill is whatís necessary to really be of benefit to the youngster. But all of us have the ability to be healers.


Is There Such a Thing As a Healing Word?

Q: Following through on the same theme, some of the books Iím reading, say there is such a thing as a word, and I donít know what the word is; itís always a mystery as to what this word is that youíre supposed to use that has the healing power. Like when Christ healed people, he would say the word, or whatever, that there is such a thing as a special mystical word that has healing power or that enables you to use the healing forces of the Universe, or whatever. Is this anything at all?


RK: Itís what you put into it, whatever you associate with some phrase or word. If youíre convinced that a certain thing works, then it tends to work for you. It facilitates your ability to do something useful. But thereís no word that does that. All words are symbolic. They mean only useful. does that. All words are symbolic. They mean only as much as you imbue them with and thereís no universal phrase or sound which does anything. Even the great healing powers, and so forth, of AUM doesnít mean anything unless you are vested with that. You write a word in a book and say, AUM, and it does something for you. You read it and you say, AUM, but it doesnít mean anything to you; nothing happens. So all words are symbols. So someone can give you any kind of word and say this is the magic word. You might recall a young knight who was scared to death to have to go out and find dragons and slay them, and somebody gave him courage by saying, ďJust before you swing your sword and lop off the dragonís head, you say this magic word; you will be completely protected from any negative influence and you will always do just perfectly in lopping off the dragonís head. He came up with the incredible number of seventeen kills over the next few years, and finally the wise man who told him all this said, ďIt really wasnít the magic word. There is no magic word; I just told you that to give you your courage, and it was you that was doing it all the time.Ē The eighteenth dragon ate him. I wouldnít worry about trying to find some guru that has the healing word or the magic word. There isnít one.


What Does the Bible Say About Reincarnation?

Q: When I have conversations with people who are versed in the Bible and the subject of reincarnation comes up, they often mention a phrase which has appointed man to die once and then the judgment, and I donít really know how to deal with that phrase. Do you know what it really does mean or what a correct interpretation might be?


RK: No. I guess I would have to see the whole context to see if I could work something out on that. But then, maybe the person who quoted it quoted it wrong. But the Pharisees, amongst the Jews, all believed in reincarnation. You scratch any European peasant, regardless of which nation theyíre in, deep enough, and you will find a reincarnationist. It is not popular in the cities, but it is out in the people who have been associated with the land for a long time, because they really have not been so thoroughly imbued with Christianity that theyíve given up their Druidic beliefs. It was the Celts who essentially populated Europe and then their priests were the Druids, and they all believed in reincarnation. Most people I know who are Catholics from rural Europe all believe in reincarnation, even though theyíre Catholics, and as I said, the Pharisees believed in it thoroughly, as did Saul, incidentally. Saul of Tarsus was a Pharisee. He believed in reincarnation. But there was a mixed bag of a number of pressures and tensions of what he should believe and what he should do, and he didnít come very strongly across with the concepts of reincarnation.


Are the Healing Sciences of Naprapathy and Rolfing Legitimate?

Q: Could you comment on the sciences of like Naprapathy and Rolfing and forms of alternate health techniques or practitioners who give people guidance on health? Because we know of only, say, the regular AMA doctor, and what validity do you know ofó


RK: Thatís a very large subject. There is no one healing technique which works for everything. And the reason why holistic medicine is enjoying popularity right now is the realization that surgery and chemicals donít solve everything. The fact that we have psychiatrists around is an indication that the scalpel and drugs donít answer everything, But although these other healing arts in many cases do marvels with different illnesses people have and are able to cure them without having to resort to surgery or drugs, they donít cure everything either. So itís a matter, I think, of people knowing about all of these different techniques and finding which ones are most appropriate for the special kinds of ills a person has instead of allopathic medicine tries to fit everything into drugs and surgery. For instance, a person sprains their back, they want to put them in traction and give them drugs to relax the muscles and things of that sort, and thatís really not the best thing to do. Any Japanese will tell him all he has to do is walk on his back and heíll be okay. Meanwhile, they can extract a few thousand dollars out of a person for hospital time and being in traction. Meanwhile, itís very traumatic and it doesnít really do the job. But walking on a personís back does not cure cancer, for instance. I donít know that the AMA has figured out a way to cure cancer either. But in many cases more can be done by suggestion, relief of tension through psychiatric assistance, and some people are relieved of those symptoms very readily. Thereís many different things, and they donít all fit into any one, letís say, discipline. I donít think I want to get into the details of every procedure. First of all, I donít know them all, and I think thatís what is really needed. So many things could have been prevented by proper diet or by not having had psychological stress induced by wrong rearing practices when one was young. Probably about ninety percent of all our ills stem from those two thingsópoor diet and psychological stresses, neuroses, that are really unforgivable and never should have happened.


Should Vitamins Be a Part of Good Nutrition?

Q Do you feel that vitamins are a part of good nutrition?


RK: Yes, definitely. To eat all of the natural foods that you would have to take in in order to meet your minimum vitamin needs would double the amount of calories that you need.


When we were ___________________, and things of that sort, we really had need of those calories, So it really helps quite a bit to keep the caloric intake down and make up the loss due to volume in the vitamins by taking concentrates. Vitamins are food, but you still have to take in something for the vitamins to work off.


Q: So you couldnít do without the technology. I mean, if youíre in a higher state, can you get those things from your diet other than precipitation or something like that?


RK: Probably not.


Why Doesnít Plant Life Supply Us With Enough Vitamins?

Q: We do need the vitamins, definitely?


RK: You definitely need the vitamins and the minerals, As a matter of fact, most of our soils are so depleted in the trace minerals that plants really arenít healthy. They donít produce all of the vitamins they normally would if they had all the trace elements. Letís put it a different way. If the plants we eat were all grown with full nutritive value because they had all the trace minerals that they needed, we probably wouldnít have to take vitamins. But most plants function pretty minimally on what it is that they have available to them.


Can Naprapathy, Rolfing or Radix Work Cause Any Harm?

Q: Naprapathy and Rolfing; there are certain detriments in either one of those that exist today, the art as it stands. I have been told by our personal Naprapathy that he ___________ ___________in Naprapathy and the detriment of Rolfing and that it does have a ____________ effect on the muscle tissue; it does tear muscle tissue. Maybe thatís just an opinion. Do think thereís anything to either argument?


RK: I guess the Naprapathy shouldnít be too disturbed unless youíre pressing on the back bone in ways which could throw things out of alignment and cause pinched nerves. The fascia that theyíre trying to loosen up by the Rolfer, unfortunately, are also involved with muscle tissue, and indeed they do bruise the muscle tissues. I donít know what you can do to avoid that sort of thing, but some people get a great deal of benefit out of that. The way they carry themselves improves and they feel generally better all over, So there obviously is an advantage. Rolfing wouldnít be popular if people didnít get good results out of it. There are other techniques besides Rolfing which can be used to get essentially the same results. Radix, for instance, is one. Radix uses a lot of Rolfing techniques. Fortunately not as brutal. I guess Rolfing really doesnít work unless youíre hurting bad. Thatís not necessary with Radix. You still get the energy discharge and breaking down of muscular armoring.


How Does the Pyramid Shape Effect Our Physical Bodies?

Q: ?


RK: Your Etheric Body is very sensitive to your mindset, whatever that may be at a given time. Itís far more sensitive to your attitudes and what you want to be and what you want to do than it is to the pyramid. The pyramid could promptly amplify your own intentions, but thatís probably the most that it does. But if you buy a pyramid and sit under it or something like that in order to have a higher IQ, youíre going to be disappointed; it doesnít work that way. It doesnít make you healthier, particularly, unless you are generating health-inducing thoughts.


Q: In that context, do you regard it as a crutch, the same as your analogy with the word that you master?


RK: If the crutches work for you and thatís what it takes, why knock it? But after a while, you find that you can essentially do it on your own and it doesnít become a crutch, hopefully.


Does the Pyramid Shape Effect Other Areas?

Q: What about taking it out of the own personal benefit, in terms of growing plants or preventing rust?


RK: If it works for you, why not use it? You still have to put gasoline in your car and you still have to put food in your body. So it obviously doesnít answer everything. Itís an interesting thing that a lot of people get into. I remember I was pretty enthusiastic about it for about a month or so, and some people may be enthusiastic about it for a couple of years, but always something else comes along. You find it has its limitations, even though it does have its advantages. Thereís no cure-all.


Does Pyramid Geometry Correlate With the Geometry of the Universe?

Q: I agree. But pyramid geometry is more than just a mental game or a mental construct. It really does have a correlation with the geometry of the Universe, I guess is what Iím asking.


RK: When you want it to work, it takes a lot of intention. Reichís Orgone boxes. You put energy into them mentally and you take energy out of them mentally, and you could indeed store energy in there; it wasnít physical. But the key to putting it in the thing and out again was somebodyís intention, somebodyís will, And some shapes tend to work better for storing those energies than others. I donít know if Orgone box means anything to you.


Would a Pyramid Perform Independent of Your Mental Thoughts?

Q: Would a pyramid perform independent of your mental thoughts?


RK: It would tend to focus the passage of etheric energy through it in a very specific way all the time, but it wouldnít do anything special unless youóit does have influence on water, Iíll grant you, but as I say, the oxygen-hydrogen bond is so weak in water that it is set up to do all kinds of interesting things.


What Is the Pyramid Shapeís Effect on Water?

Q: If you wanted the pyramid to have a beneficial effect on water, would you leave water in it or could you just ó


RK: Just runs right through it. I think there is an optimum speed at which you run it through. If you go past that point, it doesnít work as well, so you have to watch how much time it actually has exposure to the influence.


Does the Shape Have to Be Exactly Like the Great Pyramid?

Q: It would have to have the pyramid shape like the Great Pyramid?


RK: Yes. As exact as possible and oriented the same way. Nobody has come up with a good enough explanation as to exactly why they works, but we know that it does. People have been sharpening razor blades with it for a long time.


But, you know, how much of that is due to the intention, helping the pyramid do the job and what the pyramid will do all by itself with nobody having intention, that they donít know, But the fact is that what you want it to accomplish has a great deal to do with whether it will do it or not. If youíre storing __________ under it or making your coffee taste better by removing impurities and things of that sort, your intention has a lot to do with it. If you donít believe it, it seems youíre putting a lot of negative energies into what the pyramid does, and indeed, it doesnít work at all. Whereas the same pyramid set up the same way will work for another person because they believed in it more. So, you know, where does the human Mind leave off and where does the pure shape relative to nature begin? Thatís very difficult to sort through. Again, itís just because our Minds are so powerful.


Is There a Relationship Between Thermodynamics and Pyramid Power?

Q: Then there can be a relationship between thermodynamics and the Mind?


RK: Can you give me an example?


Q: Like the razor blade. Obviously, to have a razor blade reconstructed inside of a pyramid, there has to be energy transference there of some kind. If thatís the case, there would have to be heating or cooling or something going on.


RK: I donít know if itís on that level necessarily.


Q: In other words, it could be the same thing asóI donít know what Goutmore is trying to do, but he compiled quite an impressive amount of data. But isnít this force whatís been called the Oderia or hisóheís had so many terms used for this.


RK: Yeah, there are many people who have come up withó


Is the Third Element of Goutmoreís Equation Related to Thermodynamics?

Q: That third element in his equations is one of the electromagnetic, the magnetic, and this third force, is that any way related to thermodynamics?


RK: Iím inclined to think that it isnít. This is an inclination of mine, but I donít know for an absolute. You can take a sharp razorblade and set it in the moonlight and it dulls. So how much thermodynamic energy is involved in tható


Q: Itís still the same thing; itís cooling and heating.


RK: Well, is the moonlight hot or is it cold?


How Does the Light of a Full Moon Dull a Razor Blade?

Q: I donít know.


RK: So I am inclined to suspect it doesnít have anything to do with it. Something or other influences the molecular bonds of the carbon steel. It doesnít work with stainless steel; itís carbon steel. So when youíre shaving with a carbon steel blade, youíre distorting it unless you happen to knock a chip off of it, and indeed sometimes they look pretty much under a microscope like somebody did make a saw out of the edge of the blade just by shaving. But apparently there s a distorting force sufficient to push those molecules around into a different shape, which then apparently the memory of how it was in the crystal in the first place is restored by the pyramid, or in the case of moonlight, the crystal is undone; made elastic in some other way. Itís really on the edge of scientific investigation. A lot of people donít think it needs any investigation because it sounds ridiculous or like witchcraft, but many kinds of witchcraft work, too, however ridiculous they may sound. A lot of scary things go on in this world which we canít understand on the basis of our science but which keep happening all of the time with regularity.


What Branch of Science Is Related to The Full Moon Dulling a Razor Blade?

Q: What is a practical area of science which would allow a foundation to move it in the direction of understanding it?


RK: Probably crystallography. I think most crystallographers, who are physicists, adamantly refuse to experiment with something like that and give it the dignity of an experiment, because who would present it at a scientific conference? I mean, it still sounds like your imagination.


Q: But it would give you a foundation to experiment with it?


RK: Yeah, I think so. At least you would have the instruments to experiment more carefully.


Q: It is not thermodynamics?


RK: If thermodynamics is your thing, maybe you canó


Q: I donít know that.


RK: Iím only just guessing what would be the best discipline to attack it on.


What Is Your Opinion of the Moral Majority?

Q: Whatís your opinion of the Moral Majority politics in this country? Or should we ask that?


RK: Weíre on tape. I think there are a bunch of people who are pretty much scared of the way things are going and would like to turn the clock back to the good olí days, but these are the good olí days, as they say. If you really looked at what things were like thirty or forty years ago, they werenít anywhere near as good as they are today. So, I think itís mostly a fear reaction.


Q: I get the opinion that theyíre just trying to shove everything the other way too hard. Some of them are quite obstinate about it all.


A This is what God said and Ö


Q: We will get so-and-so elected; we will vote against so-and-so because Ö