Public Meeting
Stelle Forum #26
April 3, 1983
(Easter Sunday)
HOST: Good afternoon and welcome to Stelle. Richard Kieninger, the author and biographee of The Ultimate Frontier, is with us today, to answer your questions about the book, the Brotherhoods’ Philosophy and the cities of Stelle and Adelphi. Today’s April 1983 meeting is part of the Stelle Forum tape program. And now, it’s my pleasure to introduce Richard Kieninger.
RICHARD KIENINGER: Good afternoon, and a Happy Easter to everyone. A very special day. I am going to ask if there is anyone here who has not read The Ultimate Frontier as yet. Okay. We’ll give you a special introduction. Pass out this little bit here, if you don’t mind, just for a little bit of background.
The Ultimate Frontier is written primarily towards people who believe that
they can change themselves and uplift civilization, and it talks about one of
the principle purposes of a group of men and women who are known as the
Brotherhoods, to develop a Nation in the near future which will assist mankind
similar to what we have in the way of a Peace Corp today—to uplift the entire
world in some way towards getting back to a civilization similar to what we
have today and to move beyond that in the event that there is a cataclysmic
change in the continents as we know them today. Inasmuch as the earth has had a
long history of land which is above the ocean sinking and those areas which are
presently under the sea rising, as anybody knows who has seen all of the
strata in some places like the
The qualification for the people who belong to this Brotherhood, which is primarily composed of scientists and philosophers, is that they be clairvoyant and be able to communicate with one another by telepathic means, which people have long since referred to as a Communion of Saints. This is the method by which Those who have some special spiritual development have maintained a way of working together regardless of where they are in the world.
Some of the main premises of this Brotherhood are that all of us who are living on the planet have lived many times before and will live many times in the future; that we work on learning all there is to know of this physical plane of existence before we can move on to higher levels of consciousness and to take on even greater work than what we could accomplish here, on this physical plane. That They have provided everything we need to know to learn all of these things and that we have the assistance of those who have gone this path before us to tell us the shortcuts, give us the tools, the psychological techniques, and information, which is based on ultimate reality so that we can deal with the truth as much as possible in developing ourselves and moving forward to higher levels of civilization.
There is a great deal to be said about this whole philosophy in addition to that but that gives you kind of the rough background of what it is that we are dealing with and trying to accomplish. And from this point on, you people will be the ones, who are out in the audience, determining what questions I deal with from this point on. So, you are actually in control of the rest of the presentation here because I do not have a canned spiel to give to everyone.
QUESTION: Well, this is the part related to Easter. I think I have always felt a little bit uncomfortable that Christ died and suffered. I like the idea very much that he came as the Glorified Teacher and was very highly respected, just as it should be, and that we are going to look forward to Him coming in that capacity again in the future and we really will honor him instead of crucifying him. That just appalls me that this happened to Him and I do realize that he knew that was going to happen, of course. I am wondering what His thinking was that would allow it to have occurred that way instead of just coming back as the Glorified Teacher? Why choose this particular scenario that he went through from beginning to end? It is just sad and depressing for me and I hate to see it happen this way and I would much rather it was a real nice relationship, of course.
RK: Well, he needed some excuse to come back from the dead, which means that somehow he had to die, and—
Q: Why was this such an important lesson? Couldn’t He have demonstrated that some other way as a teacher?
RK: Well, I am in no position to second guess why He chose the things that He did or the way He did so. It certainly would seem to be dramatic. To die of old age, when one is in a state of decrepitude hardly seems to be the kind of thing that would elicit people’s concern and interest and so forth. Here was a young, presumably a young man in the very prime of life, who was an excellent physical specimen—how could anybody have a better body than as had been developed for Melchizedek to use while He was here? He came to give a certain kind of message and I think it would probably have been very awkward if He had stayed on as a ruler. So, He accomplished what He wanted to accomplish in three years and then made what you would call the ultimate in glorious comebacks. That, of course, was extremely dramatic and people really needed something, not that they do today of course, but really needed something to get off dead center in their belief structure. I do not have any quarrels with him. Obviously, He was in control of everything that happened to Him at any time. If He did not want to be taken prisoner He would, just as the Bible mentioned several times, just disappear and confound everybody who was looking for Him and they just could not see Him any more. But any really top notched hypnotist can do that, too, to make himself invisible to people who are pressing him. So He had every means of escape should He have chosen to do so. And even the very last scenes of after the resurrection and He had come back and He had taught for forty days, there were still many people who found it hard to believe that He died, or that He was entitled to go to heaven or something like that if He should choose to do so.
And then He staged, with the assistance of Melchizedek, one of the greatest things which was really not talked a great deal about, and that is the Ascension, which was quite a show, for there He gave his blessings to all of them and told them all the works they were going to have to do and the trials and tribulations they were going to have to rise above and how much good they were going to do to carry on His work. Then he rose several feet off the ground and just disappeared in a blaze of glory. Apparently, even his disciples required still more even after putting their fingers into open wounds in His side and putting their fingers through the holes in His hands which He had sealed against infection but were still present so that He could prove that indeed, He was the one who had died on the cross.
We might require the same thing, too, if somebody claims to come back from the dead. As a matter of fact, that has probably been the most difficult thing for potential Christians to swallow. Here, he had not only done so but had raised a few other people from the dead beside before he went; Lazarus being one of them, As a matter of fact, the Sanhedrin was very careful to consider getting rid of Lazarus as well since he was further proof of this kind of miraculous happening that was going on. So, apparently he though it was necessary, this whole process. And He rose above the ultimate cruelty that they could give. Dying on the cross was certainly one of the worst ways to go. It is long, slow, and torturous. He showed He could forgive people in the last moments of even that, saying, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.” That was certainly a good example to give to people—of forgiveness, and how lack of forgiveness chews you up inside—give you an ulcer, if nothing else.
Q: I liked your phrase particularly that “He rose above the ultimate cruelty.” I am assuming that in the days ahead we are all going to be a witness to so much cruelty amongst humans to each other before the end of the century to keep the forgiving attitude to the end.
RK: Right. I think it helps to forgive people when you understand that they are insane and they are really not responsible.
Q: I believe I read in The Ultimate Frontier where there was indicated that a certain number of souls were created and then these have gone through a number of incarnations. I could not find the specific number, but it seemed like it was less than four billion. If that is correct, and there are our billion people on the world today, it would imply that if we all have souls, some souls must exist simultaneously in several different people. Is this correct?
RK: No. The number that was assigned to this planet is thirteen billion. On the average, about one-sixth are in incarnation at any given time. Because some very special things are happening towards the end of this century, some of the very best and some of the very worst of Egos are flooding into experience what it is that they are coming in to experience. Many, of course, of some advancement, have been persuaded to get the Nation of God started and they are here out of place and out of time, but, nevertheless, to do a very important thing. And there are many who maybe are not particularly bad or good but have a lot of negative karma to be worked off from past errors and this is a good time to go through great tribulation in order to get rid of some of those. So, essentially, there is something for everybody who has decided to incarnate at this time. And that is why you have such a large number. Four and one-half billion or something is quite large and I expect it will get even higher before the turn of the century, even though famine, which is expected about the middle of this decade, which will be essentially earth-wide, will probably nibble into that expansion to a considerable extent. Still, you could have as many as five billion people by the end of this century. Some ten percent of those are expected to survive according to what those who see into the future are able to predict. So, there would be about five-hundred million people survive throughout the world in various pockets. Mostly seemingly by chance but, there will be no place in the earth that would not be affected by another one of these three day earthquakes. And earthquakes are rare that last more than a minute. A three day one is pretty spectacular. But that is as the Earth’s skin slides, or the skin of the earth slides over the kind of magma underlayment that it is floating on. I do not like to get into too much of the emotional sides of that, so if I seem to be very blasé in saying things that are that unusual it is that I do not want to play it up.
Q: This is off this particular subject but I would like to know if the community—how it feels or how this particular thing is handled—if a person or a child particularly has special abilities like clairvoyance, for instance, and has come in with them. Is this encouraged? is it ignored? how is it handled?
RK: It is neither encouraged nor discouraged. Most children who have clairvoyant ability, and probably at least ten percent of them up to the age of seven probably have pretty good clairvoyant abilities—the other ninety percent apparently just do not manifest it.
Those children are, in our society at large, discouraged mainly by saying, “Well, the child sees a certain thing,” and the parent who is unable to verify it says, “Well, you have an awfully overactive imagination,” or, “You know, that’s kind of foolish,” “or isn’t that kind of silly”—things of that sort. They give general put downs until, eventually, the child realizes that it is not accepted and that it must be that he is insane if he is seeing things that nobody else can see. Under those circumstances the child will just, by nature, quash those abilities because he will not accept them.
At the same time it is dangerous to, if you, for instance, as the guardian of such a child, do not have clairvoyant abilities, to take everything the child says because all of a sudden he can say anything to you and you will accept it. Under those circumstances, he is in charge. I do not think that benefits the child either.
The best kind of a situation occurs in many so-called primitive societies where such things are commonplace—maybe twenty-five percent of the adults are clairvoyant. They constantly see members of the tribe who have died and presumably gone onto the other side, in many cases are visiting or are nearby. That is the ideal—to raise a child in that kind of a circumstance. If you are not clairvoyant and you cannot verify what a child is seeing, I guess you have to develop a way of, let’s say, “Tell me more about it,” or “What is it that is happening?” and things of that sort—not make any pretense about you are ability to do the same thing. But, at the same time, if something seems to be used to your disadvantage in governing a child, that you say, “No, that is not acceptable.” I would think it would be much the same way that you can say to a child, “Well, naturally you get undressed to take a shower and so forth, but you do not go outside of the house when you are not dressed. The child can accept that kind of duality. It is okay to be undressed inside but you cannot be undressed outside. It does not seem to harm their psyches or anything like that. So, I guess it would be kind of a parallel kind of thinking if you get what I mean.
Q: You mentioned that the mystic state, as a couple of laboratory analysis has already shown, is a clairvoyant state has some sort of—
RK: No.
Q: There is no way it would? In your awareness what are the mechanisms involved with clairvoyance?
RK: Well, clairvoyance is purely a mind ability. It has nothing to do with the brain. The Ego who—we all are an Ego and we all are occupying at the present moment here, at least the ones you can see, are in physical bodies and, therefore, you have some phenomenon that, are a result of your brain ability and some phenomenon, are a result of your Mind ability. And clairvoyance is strictly a Mind ability. Now, if you are communicating with another Ego, say, for instance, one who is discarnate, but nearby, so that you could perceive what he or she is thinking, then you have a mind-to-mind contact with that individual. Telepathy, for instance, is the ability to detect what type of an Ego that is there just from the colors of his aura—whether it is a dark Ego or, in which event it tends to be, kind of a muddy aura. That is typical of the individual who is a rather low type. One with very light, pastel colors tends to be an individual which has some degree of Egoic advancement. And for all the various traits of character there are specific vibrations which are seen by various clairvoyants a little bit differently, one from the other. But they soon learn what color goes with what kind of emotion or state of being. So that is of sight. You know, clairvoyance means a clear sight. So, that is a seeing sort of thing. But you do have this mental ability, and all of us have some ability in telepathy. Whether we want to recognize it or not there is a lot of things which coincidence will just not answer for you in your life. So, obviously, it has to come from something else. It may be just straight mind-to-mind contact.
Many of us, in dealing with children, will convey more by our visualization of what we want the child to do, particularly a very young child, than our words alone could convey. For instance, you might give a rather complicated instruction to a two-and-a-half year old to find something in the kitchen drawer that you want and try to tell him and he will trot in there and ruffle through the right drawer and come up with the right instrument even though he never heard the name for it before. In other words, you were sending pictures of what it is that you wanted him to do and he is picking up on those kinds of things. As a matter of fact, children deal primarily in their sensitivity to emotions and the pictures you create by thoughts rather than words. The words are a secondary sort of thing.
This mind-to-mind perception or picking up radiations of other Minds is essentially clairvoyance and all of us should have the ability to do that. But we tend to block it from coming through into our perceptions by our belief structure or our very semantically oriented ways of thinking so that our cortex is just so dominant that those kinds of vibrations that our Ego itself is just not allowed to be processed. Mostly the ability to become clairvoyant is a matter of dropping away all this brain chatter that blocks us—being willing to accept the fact that such things do occur and allowing it to happen.
Probably everybody in this room has, at one time or another, had momentary breakthroughs of seeing another person’s aura. When I was quite young I remember seeing a fiery glow around my father when he was very angry with me, and I began to recognize that if I saw the fiery glow and he was approaching me, before he even said anything my feet took wings. But those were just momentary kinds of things. They did not happen consistently enough or for long periods enough to really be considered a true clairvoyance. But I think most everybody has probably had an experience of that sort but just did not know how to explain it, or, since they did not know what the qualifications were to be something which is clairvoyant, just did not even consider it.
Pay attention for the next couple of years and you may notice that you do to some extent. That is really not a special brain state or anything like that—nothing which is measurable—that is just a natural state. We should, all of us, actually, maintain from infancy through old age the ability to perceive things going through our Egoic mind instead of our five senses and brain.
Q: Did you say that people who can see the other people’s auras perceive them in a subjective manner so that it has something to do with the way they are feeling?
RK: Yes. Sometimes you have to look through your own aura.
Q: What I was wondering was, were you very angry when you perceived this?
RK: No, generally speaking I would be doing something my father did not want me to do and I did not know that it was against the rules yet. And he was storming over to protect his property or something of that sort.
Q: Could you discuss altered states of consciousness and specifically why it is discouraged for one to experiment with certain altered states of consciousness such as hypnosis, deep levels of meditation, deep breathing, Hatha yoga, and other such things? I understand from reading that it is possible that certain lower entities can come into the aura or being of the person doing this. However, is it true that many beneficial aspects may come to one within some of these altered states of consciousness?
RK: Yes, that is very possible. It is like anything else. You have to know about the risk and decide whether you want to get into those things and if there is any way to protect yourself afterwards. In some cases there are no ways to protect yourself afterwards. The main complaint with hypnotism is that it is not possible for one human being to hypnotize another without a permanent mental channel being established between them for as long as they live. And, it all depends upon how much of that you want to deal with for the rest of your life. The way by which you control your brain, as a human Ego, your will has to function through something. It is precisely the same way that a hypnotist, whether that hypnotist is in the physical, or if it is a spirit entity, takes control of your brain the same way that you do. You have to allow him to do so by going into certain states which are normally protected by going to sleep and allowing a transfer of his will to control part of your brain. You have to decide is this guy really a good enough person that you want to be connected with him for the rest of your life.
Now, admittedly that connection can be very slight and perhaps not bad at all. And, indeed, all of us receive information mentally from many different sources all the time. It depends upon whether or not we want to concentrate on them and make them our own. But in this, within the hypnotic connection, the channel is a little bit more established. But you, after all, decide whether or not you want to act on something. When you are in a conscious state, you are the one who makes the decisions. I have heard lots of lip service paid to the idea that you, for instance if you are hypnotized that you will not do anything which is deeply against your morals, and that is really not so. You will not do something which is against the morals of the hypnotist. So, you are depending upon his morals, not yours, to protect yourself.
And, there are a few hypnotists who I have talked to, medical, professional types, who have come to recognize that is indeed so. A man I have known for quite a long time, who did hypnosis particularly on elderly patients to put them into a state of anesthesia so they could be operated on because they could not take ether (their heart or lungs or something like that would not permit the use of conventional anesthesia) was rather astounded to find out that he could hypnotize an individual without ever saying a thing to him; just do it purely telepathically. He did not have to verbally say to the person to go through these certain things if he was in a certain stage. He could just do it telepathically. That frightened him to such an extent that he has since gotten out of the thing. He did not know how to handle the morality of that—was not sure, and decided that not doing it any longer was the safest answer to that.
There has been a tremendous amount of really valuable scientific information gathered through the use of hypnosis. It seems like it should be such a very useful tool and, as a matter of fact, many people do use it because it does seem to be so useful. But again, you have to decide if are you willing to pay the price of it if things start going awry. And with each subsequent hypnotic state, that you allow your self to be put into, the more open you are to the next person’s suggestion, who is a hypnotist.
And that also means hypnotists who are not incarnate—not around in a physical body—but those who operate from the Astral Plane—and some of those Egos are out for blood .I mean, when they decide that they need somebody to function through on the physical plane, and you look like you are going to be able to be moved around the way they want to do it, and they decide to latch onto you, you are in real trouble because there is no real way, other than with a top notched exorcist, to break that connection. Even then it probably is never totally severed.
So you start out fresh—you control your brain in the beginning—and you can diminish that, step-by-step, through the use of some of these practices.
Q: So, it would not matter whether it was the use of a hypnotist, second or third party, or auto hypnosis? What you are saying is that, in either case, one is allowing themselves to be open to the influence of a disincarnate or incarnate being.
RK: Right. But let me clear up self-hypnosis a little bit, too, because that is not as serious as other hypnoses. Self-hypnosis really is a misnomer. Auto suggestion is the best term to use. That is you are trying to find a way to reprogram your subconscious mind in some way as to tap into its abilities or to change it to develop a new kind of attitude or something like that, which becomes automatic. Under the circumstance of auto hypnosis, you can sometimes get into a kind of a twilight stage where you are neither asleep nor awake but yet your mind is really functioning quite clearly. If you start to drift from that state—a very euphoric kind of floating sensation—that is ideal for hypnosis. That is what a hypnotist looks for is when you get into that drifting, floating state. That is the moment where he can capture you. That also is the moment where some unseen unknown entity, in the other planes, can do so if they choose to work with you. It is very, very easy to become a medium or to become an automatic writer. It is extremely easy because there are entities constantly looking for some way to influence the physical plane through taking over the brain of somebody who seems to be willing to do so.
But then you are putting yourself in the hands of somebody or something which is totally unknown to you, and that, I am not willing to do. If I knew that person for a long time back and I knew for sure that that is what was happening, I might possibly be willing to do that, but frankly, I tend to control myself if I can.
Higher Beings, members of The Brotherhoods, are forbidden to take over the brain of another person and so, therefore, all you have left is people who are earth-bounds—people who go through transition and do not seem to understand where they are going to go from there, or are so involved with things that have been going on, on the physical plane, they stay more or less in the consciousness that they had when they were in physical incarnation. Then again, it can go all the way down to as evil an entity as you can imagine. Anyone of those folks can masquerade as anybody.
As a matter of fact, if they want to be heard, they will usually tell the person who they are dealing through, as a medium or an automatic writer, that they are, indeed, some exalted person. Otherwise, why would anyone pay attention to them? There must be hundreds of spirits who claim to be St. Germaine or St. Catherine or St. Michael or something like that. Those are real common names that come through all the time for mediums. Fletcher is another one. There are a couple of Indian names you know if you have followed spiritualism for awhile. You will recognize the names. They have to lie; otherwise nobody will pay attention to them. So, it depends upon wanting to get mixed up in that sort of thing and most people choose not to. There are a lot of very sincere people who fall into that trap totally unprepared and nobody has ever given them any warning. Or somebody says, well you just keep a white light around yourself and you are protected and that is about as effective as holding a cross in front of a speeding train to keep it from running you over—literally.
Q: On that same vein, Richard, what do you think of sensory deprivation tanks, or flotation tanks? Do you find that that would also be dangerous in the same way? Dr. John Lily, who invented that, before meeting so-called guides when he went into deprivation tanks.
RK: Well, you must remember the first time a person has been put into one of those tanks they choose to do so. I mean, they are not kicking and screaming as they are been shoved into the tank or something. They want to do this sort of thing and they usually, the first time, report a sense of panic. A lot of them want to get out of there. It is so totally different than anything they have experienced before. A deprivation of input is so unusual that it is scary and they usually like to cut it short and they have to be trained, as it were, to inure themselves to that sort of thing. Yes, it is possible to get into one of those drifting states that I talked about where you become an easy source of being a mouthpiece for somebody else. And they tell you all kinds of interesting things; mostly to mislead you or to confuse you.
Q: Well, would you not recommend that people use that as a relaxation technique or do you find that it is not really dangerous unless you actively engaged spirits?
RK: I suppose a waterbed at midnight in a quiet neighborhood would work about as well, if you want to think about the money aspect of it—practically speaking. Did you see a movie called Altered States? I do not really think you would turn into an anthropoid of a lower type as a result of that sort of thing. That was kind of a literary license, but, really strange things can occur to you.
Q: I was thinking about what John Lily describes when going into these tanks. Two guides would meet and he was instantly on the Astral Plane and they would go off into other planets and things like that as he described. It does not sound like such a good idea.
RK: There is a group of Tibetans, the Shamballa and the Agarthi, which I have talked about before, who are primarily designing various programs to confuse everyone that they can. One of their techniques is to get people to try astral traveling. As a matter of fact, they have even brought some of those techniques to this country to convince people they should go out astral traveling and then, when they are in that state, they are easy prey to the Shamballists who will induce in them visions of things—just purely mentally—induce in them visions of things where they take them off to other planets, or visit space brothers in flying saucers, and things of that sort. They can run you through a scenario that you have absolutely no way of determining if it is real. Because you are on their level and they are totally in control of what you are visualizing or seeing or talking about, but with them. And those guides that Lily runs into may be of exactly that sort. They are just there to run him through all kinds of confusing images. It is very seductive.
So, that is one of the problems people have when they go through transition and are reintroduced to life on the Astral Plane. Everything is so phantasmagoric. And whatever you think at a given moment is your reality for that moment. You can change your reality in a twinkling just by thinking of something else.
So, literally, your world is what you think there. Here there is a delay factor, on the physical plane, which probably is as beneficial as it is a nuisance. But just think if, for instance—we talk about mental precipitation. You can have whatever you want as long as you go through certain steps of visualizing. Your faith and the intensity of your desire and things of that sort are very important to make it happen. It seems like a lot of effort. Well, all of those things disappear when you are on the Astral Plane because you—that is the “desire world” as they call it because whatever you desire just is. Well, just think of every time you thought of some negative kind of thing, that appears instantly in your environment, too. So, there is a protection against our having precipitating things into our environment occur immediately because of the negative side of mankind’s thinking, So there is an advantage to the delay.
Q: So, if you are in one of these submersion tanks, just floating out there, you can just mentally precipitate anything because everything becomes so mental when you’re—
RK: Yes. That is all there is because the input on the brain begins to slow down merely because it does not have the things necessary to stimulate it. And we are constantly filtering out thousands of things. If you think about it, you can hear birds chirping in the factory addition over there and you can hear the fan running that is keeping the air circulating in here, but you were not concentrating on those things and so you are just thinking about what you want to think about. You are filtering out all of those sounds and thank goodness you are able to filter them out or you would not be able to think of anything straight.
Q: When you talked about negativity, I want to know what you think about the thought of negative thinking brings about the diseases and our circumstances and so forth and so on. And why it might take over a period of years or what have you? In other words, the book I read and thought about and tried some of the things out—is that negative thinking what is creating the problem, per se; putting it at the top and then putting everything else on the bottom. What would you say about that?
RK: Well, we agree with that. All the problems that we have in this world all seem to hinge on fear and anger. And anger probably is ultimately based on some kind of fear that we have.
And the Bible, particularly
The minister had a saying. He greeted every morning with full confidence because he said, “There is not anything that you and I, God, together, can not handle today. Nothing more can happen to me, or nothing can happen to me beyond what we can handle today.” And that is kind of a crutch in a way because I think God wants to get us to the point where we do not lean on him but rather use the same techniques that He does in order to be people who can stand on their own. And then we help Him rather than leaning on Him. And, of course, we cannot help Him in ways other than helping our fellow man. I think that is the name of the game for being here. It is a good trick to learn how to help your fellow man without interfering in his life. But, that takes a whole lifetime to figure out how to do that.
Q: What is the difference, in function, between Stelle and Adelphi? What are the tasks assigned to each and what is each place’s role in the scheme of things?
RK: Well, The Stelle Group has its membership divided between the two communities. The Stelle Group here is going to be principally involved in assimilating new people, in many cases not necessarily choosing to make them members, or trying to insist that they become members, but at least passing around the facts of our philosophy. We have discover that most people like so much the tools that we give them to bring their life into order that they eventually become attracted to the whole thing that we have to offer.
We are going to be having Stelle here in Illinois an open community where people can come in and examine what it is that we have to offer without having to join up with some kind of a church organization that they perhaps are not entirely sure until such time as they can examine it thoroughly. We feel that that would be more freeing to many people. I think some people are a little concerned about moving into an organization’s community where that church is in total command, as it were, of everything that happens in the community. That might be scary to some folks. By taking that concern away, we think we might be able to attract people a little more easily to come here and experience what it is that we have developed over the last ten years here in the community and thereby become convinced that this is something they would like to work with us on.
The Adelphi Organization also has Stelle Group members in it and it is primarily concentrating on some of the specific technical tasks that have been assigned to The Stelle Group and we are—both organizations are very much concerned with education, both of children and of adults—both working on that aspect, both Stelle and Adelphi. Adelphi is a closed community and those people who are willing to work with The Stelle Group in that type of a situation are entitled to do so and those who will have many things to offer others who come in. As a matter of fact, the people who we had stay here were the ones who seemed to be particularly adept at being outgoing towards other people, being accepting of other people, and helping them get to the same kinds of benefits that we have derived from it. More people oriented, let’s say. And the others who have moved on to Adelphi, who are able to work more in close coordination in a corporation type setting to accomplish very specific goals, are the ones who seem to be happier doing that sort of thing down at Adelphi, So, we always try to use everybody’s strengths to best advantage. Maybe that did not answer all your questions that you have about it.
Q: I guess I was looking at it mainly from the technical aspect. Is there still technical, technological research and work being done up here?
RK: Yes. You cannot stop people from doing that sort of thing cause they want it. It is just natural to them. We have a grand collection of “probers” here who want to get behind the physical phenomena that we perceive and also examine all the different ways that people have put together civilization and select the best that they can think of out of that and try to fly with it. We have spent twenty years examining all of the aspects of civilization in trying to decide what kinds of things really do not apply for the future and what things have proven themselves so well that they will probably go as long as mankind goes. It is an interesting exercise if you examine everything in life under those circumstances. That is why our philosophy covers everything.
Q: What are the power sources that will be used in the airlift, that will occur around the end of the century; those that are currently known and, if not, can you tell us something about your perceptions of them?
RK: I am quite convinced that all of the things that we will need for our aircraft, which will float above the surface of the Earth for two weeks and all of the excitement going on down below on Earth, have already been developed. It is just a different application of that technology. I will admit that we do not have a handle yet on all of those developments mainly because of the US government is the one who has accomplished those things and we are not entirely privy to all that yet. But, I believe, in the next five or ten years, that stuff will become quite into the open. Every so often, astronauts, those people who are involved with NASA, let drop a very tantalizing piece of information which, when questioned about later, they will never verify. “I didn’t say that. Something is wrong with your tape.” Meanwhile, we are probing, as best we can, into all of the literature that is available. There is just a lot which is coming out now. The scientific information that is available is so different now than it was twenty-years ago. It is hard to believe that so much—you might call it far-out kind of information—is being available in print: the fantastic things that Tesla came up with. He is the one who invented transmission of power through alternating current. He went far beyond all that sort of thing. As he began to tap into more and more of those, it seems like he had a perception of energy in the Universe that nobody since has had. As people began to dig into it more and more, the scientists are getting excited about some of the things that he was talking about and which, indeed, when they put together some of the experimental equipment and see the kind of things that they do, raises more questions about the nature of the Universe that they were after, which is good, of course. But, it is embarrassing to go to an expert and the expert has to say, “I don’t know” because it is always nice to have things in nice, neat packages. But yet, they are the kinds of exercises that make mankind grow and ??embillus?? us, in the long run. So, we do not have all the answers yet—neither science nor The Stelle Group. Actually I like to think that The Stelle Group scientists are pretty much in tune with what I am sure, somehow, that all the information will come to us in due time. Actually, there is only seven years left before we start construction of those vehicles. We are going to need two-thousand of them.
The next question is how do we raise the money for all those? I suspect that the way that we will do that is people who are interested in occupying a seat on one of those, at the proper time, will put forth the money for their portion of that particular vehicle. We plan to use those aircraft for commercial purposes and use them, not necessarily, for carrying passengers but carrying freight into different parts of the world because we think that would be quite economical to operate.
Q: Could you please comment on the ancient Indian epic, Mahabharata, and your statement that seemed to describe very modern types of weapons of Armageddon back then. Is it possible that Arjuna and his brother Sahadeva could have actually used such weapons back or is that something that is just myths?
RK: There are some perfect descriptions of atomic bombs in that ancient literature. So, it seems very likely. I have been told that people in Atlantis used atomic energy. It eventually contributed greatly to the demise of their civilization, but they did use it. Atomic energy and people do not mix. Incidentally, The Stelle Group is not a powerful activist group or something anti-nuclear, but I, and many other people, are individually very concerned about the proliferation of atomic energy for peaceful purposes.
Q: On atomic energy in Atlantis, was it that radiation that led to their demise or did it explode or—
RK: It was not an
explosion, but just the use of atomic energy—yes, radiation fallout. And just
as lead in the drinking water of ancient
Q: There was a recent TV documentary in which divers from San Diego were exploring the waters off Bimini and reported their finding a submerged pyramid and a spherical crystal suspended by two hands on a pedestal and a metal rod coming down from the top of the pyramid to specifically, in what ever it was. Do you have any impressions of this? Is this a valid thing or perhaps a hoax? Any comments at all about—
RK: Well, it
could be real but it has all the smells about it as a hoax. But such things are
possible. I don’t know that I have an answer for what it would do or what its
abilities were. I guess I’m just personally from
Q: Could you
elaborate any on the structure of these crafts you talked about a little bit
earlier? What you have come up with so far, how they might work, what they
might look like, how they might be constructed? Otherwise, they should be ? made across the
RK: We expect that each one would be about the size to accommodate two-hundred and fifty people. And we would use quite a few of them to take care of five-hundred thousand. They would probably be constructed like the body of a conventional aircraft, but they would be wingless and we may use lighter-than-air technology in addition to whatever motive force that we would use in order to save some fuel but obviously we could not rise high enough using lighter-than-air. I guess I am not willing to—I am being recorded, at the moment, but I would just as soon not get into the technical details on that.
Q: You said, at one time—fourteen miles—
RK: That is fourteen miles altitude, which is twice as high as conventional aircraft fly today—something like that. That is a long way up. Volcanoes can spew ash a good deal higher than fourteen miles. But, fortunately, high winds, at those altitudes, have very, very little force because there is not much mass behind them. A three-hundred mile an hour wind, at those altitudes, does not have much push to it. There are not many molecules in it.
Q: Does that mean that everything has to be pressurized in order to operate?
RK: Yes. It is low enough that we will be able to extract oxygen from the surrounding atmosphere even though it is under low pressure. And we have to have a means of diminishing the effects of ozone that will be up in that area. It can be pretty irritating after awhile. One more thing about them also is that they would act as temporary housing after landing. It is still good to get shelter and a place that is warm and dry.
Q: Would you be taking food and all the other—
RK: There would be other craft which would have some cattle and special seeds and lot of information that we have already prepared(?), but also there would also be underground caverns, as we have visualized it, where a lot of heavy stuff would be stored and would be located using radio.
The principle thing we are concerned with right now, and probably the most important thing in the long run, is getting people to have more personal abilities, more personal power, as it were, developing self-esteem to higher levels, diminishing the kind of neuroses that all of us are heir to, in this culture. We are moving toward more of a balance between the matriarchy and patriarchal concepts of world views, as it were. Those are big orders. It is important that we accomplish those things now for people because otherwise we start the new culture with exactly the same old stuff and that is not what the Brotherhoods have in mind.
The Nation of God or the
When Atlantis went down, about three-thousand years before the last major world-wide change, all technology, throughout the world, rapidly diminished mainly because the manufacturer and the seller of it was gone. Other people just bought the stuff and did not get into doing it as well at the Atlanteans did it. Nobody has ever matched the price or the technical know-how, which, incidentally, we are in danger of doing to some extent; letting the Japanese do everything from now on. The thing is that we might have the theoretical information, but they have the technicians and theoreticals, without having people who have it in mind how to do it, does not work. Even with simple things like we have never been able to harden bronze like the Romans did. We still have not really discovered how to do that. They used hydraulic cement continuously in their building of structures crossing rivers and things of that sort. We really did not really discover hydraulic cement until this century—a bit earlier than this century. In fact, it is real easy to lose certain kinds of technology. It is good to be in the heads of people and somebody has to have some kind of incentive to learn those sorts of things. They do not write everything down in books.
RK: Gee—there are a lot of people in deep cogitation here—that is good. It is hard to keep the program alive, but—
Q: You mentioned on The Great Virtues Lecture Tapes that the Great Virtues, if I remember don not work—you could not exactly use The Great Virtues to dig out neurotic fixations. Later, in another tape, you stated that neurotic fixations might stop you from advancing along in the study of the Great Virtues. What programs could you recommend for, first of all, discovering your fixations and then beginning to pull them up?
RK: Well, of course, the most common things are psychoanalysis. Those are the things which most people have heard about. But, I think there are ways which are even faster at getting at things like that. Many of the people here have used a process called, “Radix,” which is a neo-Reichian type of therapy. Reich discovered that—he was a psychotherapist—discovered that he was able to get more quickly to people by manipulating their muscles because it turned out that many of the painful experiences that a person buries—the memory of that, of course which are in the brain—has an equivalent memory in the musculature someplace. He was able to unlock some of these memories by poking people’s muscles; the muscles that related to those particular problems. Indeed, people tend to armor themselves against repeated hurts by deadening those muscles in which the emotions give feeling.
We make the distinction between emotions and feelings—that everybody has emotions—even if you are not incarnate you have emotions—but you cannot have feelings unless you have muscles to have those feelings in. So, a feeling is the physical body’s response to emotions, which are mental. By locking things up, tightening up muscles, or breathing a certain way so that you diminish feelings when the emotions come up, you tend to armor yourself against feelings thereafter.
A lot of little children really respond to constant griping by pulling in their neck more and more. That kind of yelling really does give you a physical pain in the neck and that may go around for the rest of their lifetime; pulled, kind of with their muscles, arms, or shoulders pulled up and hunched up and carrying a lot of tension—armoring themselves against this constant pounding by verbal abuse. In Radix, for instance, you work on loosening up those muscles and the feelings that were defended against and locked up in there for a long time and suddenly the feelings come forth. Bit-by-bit you can get rid of the feelings that were never long-discharged. They were being held there for a long, long time since childhood. I mean, you can carry around stuff like that for fifty, sixty, seventy years. Of course, it takes energy in order to keep those muscles bound up like that and that diminishes the amount of energy you have for doing something creative or useful or happy.
And with Radix, you do not necessarily have to go through the conscious remembrance. Just getting rid of the feelings saves a lot of time and a great deal of money and we are very much interested in what is effective and accomplishes the job.
The Great Virtues are very valuable and very readily useable for overcoming the bad habits that we have learned from our culture. All the things we have seen done around us from the time we were children, which were not necessarily the right way of doing things, are something you can change by seeing a better way and then developing a habit which supercedes the old habit.
But, as I said before, the neuroses are hidden from us—we are not able to deal with them consciously so we are not able to change them very well. Once we get them up on the table and see what they are, we can get rid of childhood embarrassments, which we have been carrying around for a long time and, in view of our adult understanding, just allows them to fade away. There are some fantastic “ah ha’s” a person can have when you suddenly see the connection between something like that.
Q: Is this something a person can do on themselves?
RK: Hardly.
Q: Or should they find a practitioner?
RK: Right. It is almost like making love to yourself. I mean you may not find that very satisfying and useful. It seems like whoever put us together kept putting us in or driving us into situations where we need other people and that by interaction with one another we seem to provide the greatest satisfactions in solving our problems. Infants are totally dependent upon being held in-arms and being touched and cuddled and things of that sort. If they do not get that they never grow up to be proper human beings. As a matter of fact, they may not even grow. So, it seems like that lasts for all our lives. We always need other people to be better. As a matter of fact, we need other people just to verify our own sanity.
Q: In one of The Initiate Tapes you said, if someone hurts you, say emotionally, that they would not incur any negative karma unless you took it to heart. I am just having trouble understanding both sides of that and how that works.
RK: I can understand your confusion, yes. It is difficult to penetrate. I think that I used the example, (I cannot remember. I have said so many things, in so many places, so many times I do not know for sure what ends up on tapes) something about a man might make certain romantic overtures or say certain things to a twenty-six year old woman, which she would not be particularly influenced by and just say, “get lost you creep” or something like that, but a sixteen year old girl might be absolutely crushed by the things that you had said or proposed. Was that example used in there?
It depends upon who you are dealing with in many cases as to whether or not there is going to be negative emotions generated in that other person. And you have to be sensitive to their fears and problems, which are very frequently age related, or experience related. So that, therefore, would require some discrimination on your part as to what you can say to a person without incurring negative karma.
Actually, a person can say anything to you, and they will use words which are presumably highly insulting and demean your parentage or things of that sort. Now you can either choose to be insulted and deeply crushed by all these kinds of things and, indeed, if you are macho enough and have to defend your family honor and go and fight there, possibly getting yourself badly mauled so you end up in the hospital for a long time—dead even, or you can just consider the source and say, “Well you know—it’s just words, I can either believe them or just say, well he is trying to get to me and I am not going to let him.” So, he could either lead you into all kinds of dangerous reactions or you just pass it off as meaningless. So that is your choice.
But, see one of the problems is you are trained in many ways by our macho culture to respond in certain strong ways to show your manhood and that you are not a person to be insulted and that you are somebody and you are not to be taken lightly and so on and so forth, If you decide that somebody insulting you is something that you have to respond with fisticuffs on, or war, like nations do. You know if somebody insults their king they all go rattling off to war and kill a couple of hundred-thousand people and then everybody is satisfied. I guess there is a level of sanity there. You have to decide what is real, what is not, what is important, what is not. But you are asking the question. Now, if the person who hurls all these insults at you, or even does some physical injury to you, whether he is going to get negative karma from it depends upon you. If you just cannot help yourself and you are just crushed by all of these types of things, then he is going to get negative karma. If, on the other hand, you do the most adult sort of thing and just blow it off, then he does not get any negative karma. Does not sound fair, does it? But, you know, why should you suffer so he should get negative karma? What he is doing is probably being done out of either a childishness, he really has not grown up yet all the way, or he just does not understand, in which event you have to say, “Well, you want to get insulted with what a two year old tells you or says to you?” So, that is your choice.
Q: To add to that, in other words then, what we are really saying is that a person cannot be insulted unless they accept it as an insult, or complimented unless they accept it as a compliment?
RK: Correct.
Q: And a good picture that I have seen, Gandhi. I do not know whether anybody’s seen it, but it sure shows you where the power really lies, and that is in Love, and it actually portrays it.
RK: Yes. Why let other people control you?
Q: That is right.
RK: I was talking to a friend of mine, one time. We were walking down the street, and he went to get a newspaper, and the newspaperman was about forty years old, and I do not know his history but he was obviously very badly crippled in one leg and he had let it get him down and he was “Woe is me and the world is lousy” and all that kind of stuff. He just had to have this lousy job selling newspapers, even though he had a pretty successful stand from what I could see. But he would say literally nasty things to his customers and he did the same thing to my friend and I said, “Boy, you are pretty good, you know, did not let that bother you, just rolled off your back like water off a duck’s back.” He said, “Yeah, why should I let him control me and make my day bad.” So I remembered that for a long time. It is a good response.
Q: Does it also fall true, then, if you do not react to that person, you are sort of controlling him in deciding whether or not he is going to get some karma? I am still a little vague—I mean, that cannot be right.
RK: He should suffer, huh?
Q: Because how does that follow through as to what you put forth is going to come back to you because if it did not come back—if you are refusing to let that go back to that man, you are going to let it run off of you? But, he still put it forth and how does it follow through that what he is putting forth comes back to him? You might not return it but, somehow, somebody or some way, that deed has got to come back to him.
RK: Well, you know, you are obviously going to be buying into his miserableness. It is very simple, and you do not even have to believe in karma or use that terminology or anything else. All you know is that if you go around and everybody you meet you smile and you are friendly with, you are going to get smiles back from people. And it you go around being grousy and mumbling and “GRRRR” and all that sort of thing, that is exactly what you get back.
Q: But, you are saying after what all those people you are grumbling at, all of them choose not to grumble back with at you, how is your deed that you are putting forth, your grumbling, ever going to come back to you? Are you still responsible for what you put forth to other people?
RK: But Christ said, you know, a very good piece of information on that very same thing—you know, forgive them who do that sort of thing.
Q: I can do that and still how does the system work? I want to be—because I do not want any part of—
RK: If you are not hurt, he has no karma. That is all there is to it. You have saved both of you all kinds of problems. What are they, just words. If somebody is having a bad day—let them have their bad day if they want to have their bad day. You do not have to have a bad day because they are having a bad day.
Q: That is their character, then.
RK: It may be their character or it may be the day, you know. Maybe they ate the wrong kind of food in the morning and they got indigestion or something. Those are just everyday kind of interactions with people. You do not have to hook into them, just let them fly by. If you stand up and resist them then man, it just climbs all over you. If you just stand aside and let it go by, well, it is gone. You do not even have to think about it at all any more. It just did not affect you. You can make those decisions every time you get into a conversation or every time you meet somebody. Those are your decisions. You can either choose to be insulted and get all upset and grouse about it, or you can just say, “Well, that is just the way people are. That’s the way that person is.” Fortunately, not everybody is that way and you choose to be with the people who tend to make you feel good. But all of us, in the world at large, are going to run into people who are down and grousing and what have you. If they want to be miserable, that is up to them. But, eventually, they can see that you are not being effected and if you really want to get even with them. Smile all the time. They will wonder what you are up to and it will drive them crazy.
Q: Would you please discuss vegetarianism versus meat eating?
RK: You know all the good ones.
Q: I am a little concerned about some of your remarks previously about vegetarianism. I probably have not heard all of your remarks about the subject. But, people who do not choose to follow a vegetarian regime—the basic argument is that they are not getting the proteins that animal substance provides and their argument is that they do not choose to eat animal substances because of one of many reasons; either it is the pesticides or the way they are prepared—
RK: How they were killed—
Q: Killing animals and things like that. Would you please comment on why vegetarianism, strict vegetarianism, total vegetarianism, is not recommended, and that eating meat in moderation is recommended.
RK: Well, I would say this. If you eat only fruits and vegetables, you are in very serious problems because you just are spacey. You just do not have enough oxygen in your brain because your system is so—I am trying to decide how much in the scientific type of explanation I want to get into this because it can get quite long. When your blood is very alkaline, then it seems that you do not have a proper balance of carbon dioxide in your blood stream, in which event the carotid arteries have a natural valve in there and they tend to shut down. It just closes off the flow of blood to the brain. Under those circumstances you also get less oxygen to the brain and so you tend to be very floaty, very spacey, things of that sort. And, it is hard to live a life in a practical manner under those circumstances and it is also very difficult to fend off nether entities who might want to take you over when you are in that floaty state.
If using a purely vegetarian diet you have lots of grains and nuts and things which will acidify them so actually the blood never goes over neutral but it gets more towards the acid side or more towards the alkaline side. So, if I say acid blood it means that you are much closer towards the acid side than otherwise. Carbohydrates and proteins tend to acidify the blood stream and they also tend to give you more energy and more mental alertness.
Now, human beings were very specifically designed, as I understand from my Teachers, because it was the only way that people could survive from year to year in the so-called temperate zones because they did not have fruits and vegetables available for twelve months out of the year—maybe only six months or, if it was real nice, like eight months. So, you had to have fresh food because we were not born with refrigerators. You started out in human development of the race just having to deal with what was available to you. As men learned how to become hunters of animals, they were able to move into the more temperate climates because they were able to get fresh food on the hoof in those months out of the year when the fresh fruits and vegetables were not available. So, we were specifically designed to do that.
Also, it made us much fleeter—we were able to move around a lot better—otherwise we would be carrying around about the same amount of gut that gorillas do because they are strictly vegetarian, except for an accidental insect on occasion. They have to have much larger processing equipment, in the form of more intestines and a different kind of digestive system altogether, which, of course, would make all of us very big around, just like gorillas are if we were to do that.
So, as a design process, they made us able to eat fruits and vegetables and meat. There are some peoples who survive almost entirely on a meat diet—Eskimos for instance—and there are some hunting tribes that do very little scrounging around in the dirt to find what other kinds of things of vegetable nature to eat.
So, we are designed to be able to do that much like birds who are strictly grain eaters. For instance, there are many species of birds which the adults eat nothing but grains. Their infants require a strictly meat diet in the form of insects, worms and things of that sort, and at least in the beginning stages while the neurological system is still being assembled after birth when the chick first comes out of the egg. It is designed to be as small as possible and to a great extent it is undeveloped neurologically, even though it might be able to—seem like it could survive by itself to some extent it really cannot. It is totally dependent upon the mother. Sparrows might be a good example of that one, for instance, and many of the other birds which come out of the egg virtually without feathers. They have to have an insect diet. Now, the parents do not eat or swallow any of the insects, They might grind them up in the crop for regurgitation into the little one’s mouth and that gives them the kind of food that is essential for rapid muscle growth and for neurological development.
Human infants are exactly the same way. They must have milk or the equivalence in meat type of protein, Most of the people in this room are of a genetic stock that requires a fair amount of meat products in order to function properly. And it is not really possible to adopt an entirely vegetarian diet and get along very well.
Now, there are many people who augment a vegetarian diet with cheeses, other milk products, and so those dairy things really do help quite a bit. They will also eat eggs, for instance—unfertilized eggs because they do not want to kill anything. Sometimes people carry this idea of not wanting to kill life to that extent.
And then there are some people in different parts of the world who feel that they are killing all kinds of invisible life when they eat carrots and things of that sort. They have to be very careful that they clean the things off thoroughly so that they are not consuming any of those creatures that live underground they cannot see. So, a lot of it gets to be philosophical about being very peaceful and not wanting to kill anybody or anything. But they are still murdering carrots.
So, I guess you have to try to be as logical as you can about it, have some background into the facts of what the tradeoffs are, and what some of the risks are and make your own decision from that point on, We have had some people here who have been very staunch vegetarians but unfortunately they were also fanatics. I do not think that the two, that one was caused by the other, they happened to be just both simultaneously and they never really stayed or worked out very well and, of course, very frequently they went away saying that we will never make it to The Nation of God mainly because we are animal murderers. I guess you have to decide what is real and what is not. So, I have given you my run down on it and I never did take a stance, or maybe I did.
Q: Will nuclear fall-out shelters be necessary or desirable before the time of Armageddon and the air-lift?
RK: No, I do not think so. There are other ways of protecting yourself in the event of that sort of thing and there will be considerable amount of nuclear explosions towards the end of the century which we will have to protect ourselves against but that can be done by other means.
Q: Such as?
RK: Reich invented some devices a long time ago which tend to neutralize radioactive fallout. Aloe vera, for instance, tends to prevent radiation sickness and there are a couple of other extracts which can be used from different plants, which were discovered by our civil defense people. I do not know if they were discovered by them, but at least passed along by the civil defense people, that will prevent radiation sickness. However, if you happen to be illuminated by a flash of an atomic bomb, it does not really make much difference what you do; you caught your lunch as it were.
Q: I think you
said that there will not be any atomic bombs dropped in
RK: Right. We will not be involved in Armageddon in any way, at all. We will be too small potatoes to be considered to drop any bombs on. But, it does seem possible that there will be one bomb exploded in this country during this decade.
Q: Before Armageddon?
RK: Right—an entirely different war.
Q: On the East Coast?
RK: Yes, the Northeast. Many seers have foreseen that one but it seems likely that is probably what will happen.
Q: ??
RK: I think ??. I am just quoting a whole bunch of different people who, over a century have seen this.
Q: There was a book written, We Are The Earthquake Generation, and there is a certain scenario in there about events that could happen. Is that something that you can loosely rely on, or—
RK: Yeah, pretty loosely. I mean, when I say loosely, I am not going to go on record in saying that this particular date is exactly so. The general picture seems to be correct from the things that I have been taught.
Q: Because he was not very specific in his dates and I was wondering—that book was written I think in 1979—since then if you had heard or had any other information that maybe could be used?
RK: No. If I come up with anything that was worthwhile sharing I usually do that sort of thing. I would suggest that you do not concentrate on that kind of stuff because it tends to break you down. There is an advantage to knowing about such things to happen so that you can become more or less inured to it. I do not mean to be callous, but not be just bowled over and made inoperative as a result of such a horrendous thing occurring.
Now, that is news. That is the kind of thing that people like to blare out on the newspapers and television, They can write about it in books for God knows how long. But you have to put it in proper perspective. You are surviving, if you do survive, and you have things to do and it has to be done in the face of all of the insanity which is between now and the turn of the century, and you have to keep operative in order to get something done. If you fall into a blue funk it does you no good. Now I cannot say that you are supposed to be all cheerful and say, “Well, they probably had it coming, and you know, have bad karma, and would not have incarnated there if it was not for that and so forth and so on. That, I think, is just kind of insane, because it would reflect an inhumanness, or non-humanness, or something other than concern about what had happened to other people.
But at the same time, you must not let it dominate your thoughts so that you are just, and it will—you know, there will be many people who will be so terrified by this sort of thing or say, “This is indeed what the Bible said. This is the beginning of the doom. This is the end, you know. So we will just forget and give up and let happen what is going to happen.” We will be saved by what we do. God has never really saved anybody yet. He has given them information by which to save themselves and we have to anticipate it will be the same kind of a situation. We will be given the information to know what to anticipate so we can prepare ourselves to save ourselves.
Because it seems like, if you follow the history of the Jews through the Bible and so forth, God always gave people warnings. If they did not heed the warnings—for instance, there were some times he said, you know, “Straighten up and fly right,” or, you know, “You’re just going to go down the tubes.” And people did not straighten up, and they did not fly right, and sure enough, they went down the tubes. I mean, the Babylonians came along and hauled them all off and put them into slavery. A number of times their whole culture was just totally disrupted by war or invasions of one sort or another captivities. So, if they do not heed the information that is being given to them, then the natural results do occur. And you did not stop them from occurring.
A lot of people have
literally heard this over and over again, particularly down in
A great deal of effort is
being put forth by The Brotherhoods, and even in the Bible, about all the
things that could happen and they also talk about a Golden Era, too, when mankind
will live in peace and the lamb will lay down with the lion, etc., etc. That is
real, too. But mankind has to make it happen. We have screwed up this planet
pretty badly and we certainly, by our negative thinking, have allowed just the
kinds of things that happened in
If all of us lived the Golden Rule, beginning tomorrow, the world would be an entirely different place. Of course, everybody would have to agree to do it all at once. And it is because of this fear that everybody will not do it all at once and everybody keeps on piling up more weapons.
And yet it would be insane also for us unilaterally disarm ourselves considering the way the Russians think. So we are in this crazy Catch-22. I guess the only way to change the Russians is to reeducate them and that is possible. It might take a couple of generations but other things will intervene and the purification of the planet will be taken care of as nature has always done it before. The Brotherhoods are making Their plan coincide with this natural outworking which They are able to see because they will perceive the future. It is a very sound plan, and we, as human beings, need to take advantage of.
There are many people who believe that mankind can rise above what we are today. Practically everybody in this room is convinced that they, at least, can change themselves to be better. And if they can change themselves, then they can change some portion of the world because wherever they are they improve the world where they are.
You
cannot legislate civilization, but if you have
together a bunch of people who are civilized, then you have a true
civilization. So, we are gathering together the people who are looking for
others who believe the same kind of thing. And by gathering together we can do
a great deal more than just scattered individually all over the
But we have to work together. That is the main thing. Scattered we have no strength. Just like a laser beam. If you are all together working in one direction and you are all tuned to the same thing, you have incredible power. And that is what we need to do.
We cannot change the world, not in an ultimate sense, but we can take with us, into the next century, a higher level of consciousness, the beneficial technologies that we need to uplift mankind, to maintain the level of health that we have, and to have the conveniences and safety that we have today. Those are all good things. It is not necessary to get ground up in technology. You just have to select your technologies. And there are appropriate things for this planet. We intend to be involved with those.
Lots to do. Just an incredible amount of things to do. If we do not get together and start doing pretty soon—we have seventeen years left, according to the Brotherhood’s timetable. That is an amazingly short period of time.
But yet look what this Nation did in the five years of World War II, for instance. But we were only in it for four, for that matter. Look at the changes that were wrought throughout the entire world in that four-year period. Just think about all the kinds of changes that occurred. Nations were born. Kingdoms fell. Whole new technologies were developed. We were able to move millions upon millions of fighting men from one place to another. We have our technological know-how together to create the War Machine that was the greatest that the World has ever seen. I mean, the battleships and the aircraft and the tanks and all that kind of stuff.
Now just think of what we could do if we mobilized that kind of energy and intelligence towards something which is positive. Now, much of the world is not interested in that sort of thing. They are interested in keeping other people down and therefore rising comparatively. So, we would have to take a select number of people who really have this dream in mind. They are not just the floaty idealists out there, they are practical idealists who can make it work and actually do it.
Consider what was done in four years during World War II—all the good and all the bad and all the changes that occurred. Four years is a long time. Seventeen years is a long time, but knowing how glacially people get moving in a certain direction, seventeen years turns out to be a short time. We can do it. But will we?
That is the question that Melchizedek and the Brotherhoods have to worry about. But they say that somehow or other, enough of us will get the fever and say, “If I do not do it, who will?” and actually go out there and do it. That they will get together, they will actually find the way and make it happen. They perceive this happening.
But the battle of inertia is within each of us. Will we get off the dime and do it, or will we say, “We will let George do it.” Of course, George is waiting for you to do it, so nobody does it. That is the other option.
Our meeting time has come to an end. I thank you very much for the questions that inspired me to stand up here for two hours and yack at you. I enjoyed it very much and I look forward to seeing you again sometime. Thank you.