November 9, 1997
QUESTION:††††††† Do you suppose there is any reality to the
RICHARD KIENINGER:††††† I donít know. Iím not convinced thatís real. Until the government admits it and has scientists who can explain what happened and how it happened, Iím going to be skeptical.
theory on the
RK:†† We havenít done that yet to my knowledge, and the Brotherhoods have never mentioned anything about it. I think time travel is a very tricky thing, because you start modifying events either in the future or the past, which all would normally have some kind of influence on thing that would follow. And you canít change history that way. It gets pretty screwy.
Q:††††† Is the physical plane is the only plane that is subject to time?
RK:†† The second plane of existence is also influenced by time to a certain extent because it has patterns connected with the physical plane.
Q:††††† If youíre on the Astral Plane, you can move from the beginning of time to the end, back and forth, as much as you want; is that true? Or are you just changing your point of view?
RK:†† The best I understand it is you canít go beyond your own lifewave. The lifewaves progress every few billion years. You canít view the previous one and you canít go into the following one.
Q:††††† So they donít feel itís a good idea to try to change the past, they just want to follow the physical plane as it moves through time?
RK:†† All of our thoughts and actions, taken together, have an influence on all of us as Egos in the past and in the future. Every thought, and the effect of it, goes into the past and into the future. But weíre only aware of the moment now. So I suppose all the influences of the Lemurian civilization and the Atlantean civilization have a kind of drawing upward effect on what were the primitive peoples on this planet. Also, the backward nature of the first few hundred thousand years of humans on this planet has a retarding effect on future societies. What we think today has an influence not only on the past, but also on the future. The kinds of things all the human beings on the Earth, by and large, their attitudes and what have you, have an influence either for the good or for the bad, depending on what kinds of thoughts they are, on things for the next 7,000 years. So when you say Black Mentalists today might project their thoughts back into earlier times and bedevil people back in those periods, thatís possible. Same thing in the future. But for now, they havenít got an influence on you unless you pursue it, because thereís a protection from the Archangelic Plane against that.
Q:††††† Itís hard to think in four dimensions when Iím still having trouble with three.
RK:†† And there might be other dimensions besides. Theoreticians in physics really get carried away with how many dimensions there are. I think the last I heard, thereís twelve, but thatís all theoretical.
Q:††††† Do you think in the Nation of God that we will place less emphasis on the Bible, or will we write a new ďBibleĒ?
RK:†† Well, the Bible is a historical document of both the Old Testament and New Testament. I donít think it would be messed with in any way. We could translate it as best we for our understanding, but I think there would just be new books representing the complete philosophy rather than revising the Bible.
Q:††††† Would we take out the books and chapters that were written for political reasons by people wanting to back up personal agendas?
RK:†† I donít think itís fair to mess with it.
I recall, one of your Teachers suggested that you read
RK:†† Well, as I say, itís a historical document.
Q:††††† Even though itís not accurate history?
RK:†† Is there such a thing? History is always put out by the people who won wars and survived over the winters, so they always slanted things pretty much their way.
Q:††††† Donít the Brotherhoods have an accurate history of those time periods recorded?
RK:†† Yes. Particularly the Essene Brotherhood.
Q:††††† Would they release that information, do you think?
RK:†† Iím inclined to think so. But as I say, it would be a new document, not a modification of the Bible. Some of the Nag Hammadi papers are real eye openers from the first century of Gnostics and Essenes, the early Christians. I would recommend reading some of those translations from the Nag Hammadi documents. Theyíre pretty fascinating. They present a different view of things than what eventually survived to become part of the New Testament.
Q:††††† When Christ left the planet, Iím wondering why the Hebrew hierarchy failed to acknowledge who He was. Did they realize who He was and still failed to acknowledge it for reasons unknown? What is your opinion?
were a couple of people who were part of the Sanhedrin who did recognize Christ
for Who He was, but they already were members of the Brotherhoods. Others who
were politically in power did not believe it, and they were primarily afraid of
what Christís influence would do relative to the Roman Empire who was occupying
Q:††††† So they actually failed to recognize Who He was.
RK:†† They said, ďThe Messiah is still to come.Ē And anyway, they were expecting that Messiah was going to free them from occupation by the Romans and to create a whole new world system where everybody believed as the Jews believed. And that didnít happen. Of course, they helped keep it from happening. But that really wasnít His plan anyway.
Q:††††† When you were mentioning earlier people thought the thing that Christ was doing were unbelievable and if He were doing that today, we would think He was a fraud. It certainly is a theme Iíve heard so often that the government feels that they have not only the right but the obligation to protect the population from fraud. And Iím wondering if in the new nation, or just in a nation that is not so totalitarian, as in the U.S., whether people would want government to replace their own sense of personal responsibility and be taken care of.
RK:†† Personal responsibility is a main tenet of the Brotherhoods.
Q:††††† So in a less invasive form of government the responsibility for all safety concerns and protections of its citizens other than from foreign invasion would be the responsibility of each individual rather than some government official.
RK:†† Still, I like the idea of a public health service.
Q:††††† I thought about the same things a number of times, and I thought that thereís a lot of areas where the government seeks to protect the individual citizen, and they do it to such a degree that the citizen wonders whatís going to protect us from the government. And my thought was that maybe that would be better done, since itís nice to have a group of people that specialize in a certain area, such as whether this foodís healthy, by some kind of citizens groups that serve to educate people rather than having government making rules and regulations and dominating people.
RK:†† Another possibility is self-regulation within any given industry.
Q:††††† So that would be a group that would qualify to specialize in that area. If we each were to assume all the responsibility for our own personal safety and welfare, what would the country be like if we were free of Big Brother that and we had to do it ourselves? That would result in a whole lot of citizens, who have such a tremendous ability to be responsible for so many things, that they could probably do 100 times more than what citizens can do today.
RK:†† It would make us be responsible, too. So, we would have to be aware and educate ourselves as to what the possibilities are of things going wrong.
Q:††††† So even a child growing up would be in a culture where he assumed he had to be trained not only how to read a bus schedule, but how to take care of his own health, how to learn how to deal with other people to avoid being subject to fraud and learn about economics so that somebody doesnít set up a system that exploits all of them. That would become part of the culture, and everybody in the culture would have those basic abilities that nobody has now, because weíve turned it all over to the government ďexperts.Ē What would a nation of those kinds of people be like?
RK:†† Pretty bright, I would think.
Q:††††† One of my favorite phrases in The Ultimate Frontier, in a conversation with Dr. White, He said, ďWeíre rich and powerful, but weíre not great.Ē That was a real eye-opener for me. Rich and powerful doesnít mean great. There may be a whole lot of citizens who have a high degree of personal responsibility and personal discipline.
RK:†† That requires a lot of training in things that are really meaningful in life. Because we donít have life training in schools.
Q:††††† Thatís not even being pursued at all now. If that would be pursued even to a tiny degree, we would be on our way to becoming a great nation rather than merely rich and powerful. I thought I would just throw that out to see if I was on the right track or if that even sounded workable.
RK:†† I think it is. If you have a situation where youíre found to produce a faulty product which people are led to feel is safe or put out a food product which is contaminated in some way, I would think that the producers would be afraid of having it traced back under the individual responsibility that executives would have in their company when it comes to common law penalties. Because Common Law does not exempt a person from liability through a corporation, which is an artificial individual.
Q:††††† So would it be the head of the company who would be solely liable in that case?
RK:†† Unless he can absolutely pin it on somebody further down.
Q:††††† That would certainly change the attitudes of manufacturing.
RK:†† Iím inclined to suspect so, because right now, as a corporation, you canít lose any more than what the corporation is worth. Once all the money is gone, or the assets are gone, thatís it. Because of limited liability, plaintiffs canít do anything else. But now wrongdoers can turn right around and form a new corporation with a different name, same people, and go right back into business again.
Q:††††† But under a system of personal responsibility, that probably would occur a whole lot less frequently than it does now.
RK:†† I think people would think a great deal more responsibility about whether or not they want to go into any kind of a business which influences the public in any way.
Q:††††† Doesnít any business include the public?
RK:†† There are a few that deal with other companies. Some people just deal with companies, not necessarily with the public.
Q:††††† Anybody that manufactures consumer goodsóa pair of shoes, a shirt, stuff like that, thatís all dealing with the public.
RK:†† There are companies that produce a few parts for something which has many, many different parts in it. So theyíre not really directly involved with the public. Itís the responsibility of the final assembler to be aware of the quality of the stuff that heís putting into his product. Thatís the only reason I made that distinction.
Q:††††† When physicians look at a certain homeopathic remedy, they often declare itís fraud because when they analyze it, all they find is water. Iíve read that water has a molecular memory, and Iím trying to understand what Iím reading. What Iím making out of it is that in the homeopathic remedy, there may be a trace of something. Somehow or other the water has a memory of that molecular structure.
RK:†† What is a liquid crystal.
Q:††††† Could you explain that further?
RK:†† I donít know that anyone has ever been able to fully explain homeopathy, but the liquid crystal aspect of water is what allows it to have memory. Apparently, the basic part of some particular remedy is diluted so many times that thereís probably not even one molecule left when they make the pellets. But it has the etheric pattern of the substance that was used still in the liquid crystal. My best understanding. Itís astonishing that homeopathy works, but it does work.
Q:††††† Along those lines, I read a book, Mutant Message Down Under, where an Aborigine fell off a small hill and broke one of his limbs in a compound fracture. And there was a female doctor from the States in the group. The native healers moved their hands over the wound and imagined the Etheric Pattern of the bone in its correct position. And before her very eyes, the bone healed and went under the skin and the skin covered over the wound and he was made well in a matter of a few minutes. So Iím seeing a link between the homeopathy, water crystals and the Etheric Pattern.
RK:†† The Etheric Pattern of a body is subject to thought. Human thought is much more powerful than almost everyone in this culture gives credit for. And there are a number of people who are qualified to heal just by what they call magnetic healing. It has nothing to do with magnets; itís just a terminology that youíll find. Psychic surgeons are the same kind of thing. They donít even have to touch you and still the operation happens. But thatís because somebody with absolutely total confidence that they can do it operating from the Astral Plane is functioning through the psychic surgeon. So Mind power to heal something like that, if people know what theyíre doing and have the confidence in what theyíre doing, works very well. Most people can help another person by raking out things from the personís body. If they have arthritis or something of that sort. they injured their knee, for instance, you can use your fingers held like rakes and not even touch the body, but just visualize there being an extension of your fingers which meet in the center and you pass that over the knee in this particular case and it can do wonderful things. And almost everybody is capable of doing that. So raking out illness , helping things heal that are inside. If someone pulled a tendon in the wrong way, for instances, you can visualize what you want; have your patient also visualize what it is that he wants to have accomplished, and between the two of you working, the patient and the operator, you can do all kinds of things like that. And thatís a very simple kind of thing. I recommend that you try it. It has to be with the personís approval, of course.
Q:††††† I seem to recall one time when you were discussing the Philippine healers, if a person wanted cosmetic surgery, for instance, I recall your saying that it probably wouldnít work, whereas a tumor or something of that nature, it would.
RK:†† Anomalies or some physical defect which arises over time are subject to such healing.
Q:††††† But Christ, on the other hand, was able to change a personís vision so that he could see again. So He must have been actually changing the Etheric Body or something.
RK:†† Right. One of the guards, named Malthus, who came to take Him prisoner, was attached by Peter, who had a sword and chopped off his ear, and Christ restored it. Thatís a powerful visualization to happen instantly. When you say He helped the blind person to see, I think whatever connections were necessary for the light to strike the retina and then send the proper signals to that part of the brain that is responsible for sight Christ could do. Then suddenly, the person who was blind could see light for the first time, but it would require a lot of training to eventually learn what it is that heís looking at. Itís just a vast jumble of meaningless images until the brain makes sense out of it. So, he probably had a learning process to go through after the physical pathways were made whole again.
Q:††††† So this is not something that a spirit healer could do but which an Archangel could do.
RK:†† Well, an Archangel can do just about anything so far as human physical bodies are concerned.
Q:††††† As far as anything is concerned?
RK:†† Well, Archangels canít create Egos.
Q:††††† Could Masters give sight to someone born blind?
RK:†† I would be inclined to doubt it. Creating a chair is one thing; creating nerve pathways or having anything to do with the brain is awfully complex. Itís my opinion that Masters do not have the kind of training required to do that. Angels can start making one-celled creatures, and thatís extremely complicated. I was recently looking at some ants on the property and thinking about all the different kinds of things an ant can do. It knows how to take care of the pupae and eggs, engineers holes in the ground, figures out what is edible and is not edible, and can travel far distances and find its way back. Now this ant is maybe about an eighth of an inch long, and its head is about 1/32nd of an inch long. And inside that head, in addition to the jaws and eyes and everything else, thereís a brain. That brain is pretty small. But look at all the information that is packed into that brain. All the things that it needs to do is genetically inherited knowledge generation after generation. Would you think a Master is able to create an antís brain that can replicate itself? Itís astonishing to me that an ant has a brain that is so tiny but can provide such information.
Q:††††† I read about some little sea creatures that have a five-celled brain. And those five cells allow it to do whatever it needs to do. Nowhere near as complex as an ant, but it has what it needs to get by.
Q:††††† An Archangel can mentally precipitate a whole human body, correct? Angels can mentally construct matter into a single cell and then evolve that into anything They want. That would seem to mean They cannot precipitate a brain or body of an ant directly but must work through the slow, evolutionary process.
RK:†† Yes. It must take a long time with a whole bunch of Angels working together to learn how to make the first cell work.
Q:††††† So a Master would be limited to precipitating inanimate objects. The other question I have is, have you ever been lying down in a semi-dark room, held your hands this far apart and noticed the energy going between them and spread your fingers apart and just kind of play with the energy?
RK:†† Kind of a bluish light.
Q:††††† So that is not an optical illusion then?
RK:†† No, that isnít.
Q:††††† Could that be associated with the healing energy that you were talking about earlier? What is that that Iím seeing?
RK:†† Itís bioelectric and etheric.
Q:††††† Could Kirlian photography photograph it?
RK:†† Yes. The Etheric pathways tend to ionize the physical plane, allowing physical electrons to be imagedóby a Kirlian photograph. Thought can influence those patterns.
Whatever your emotions, they will be reflected in the Kirlian photograph. Also, if youíre in a semi-dark room looking at your hand and looking for Etheric Patterns around it, you may really be seeing an effect of eye movements. The eyes scan constantly in order to overcome the fact that the fovia, which is right at the very center of the retina, is a blind spot. It would leave a small blank in the center of whatever youíre looking at. So your eyes are constantly moving in order to fill in that blank so you can get an uninterrupted field of vision. Fortunately, the fact that your brain is able to do that allows motion pictures to give the effect that it does; otherwise, you would see a lot of flickering pictures. Itís your brain that makes these images flow together. So, a narrow bluish light around the fingers may be due to the eye movements and the minor exhaustion of the visual purple pigment. That then is a visual effect, not necessarily seeing the Etheric Pattern or the bioelectric field.
Q:††††† Tests have been done using Kirlian photograph with people who love each other and with strangers, who are indifferent to one another. When the two people who love each other touch, that is reflected in the photograph; but between strangers, nothing happens. About twenty years go I saw color Kirlian movies and it was gorgeous. Near the end, there were two people. You could tell it was two heads, but you couldnít make out the details. There were these nice glowy, warm colors. But as soon as they kissed, fire was just shooting all over the place. It was mostly white rays and little white floaty things that were moving away from where their lips were. It was an electrifying experience.
RK:†† I believe kisses are supposed to be electrifying.
Q:††††† And there was this finger-touching thing too. Wherever their fingers and arms were touching, there was energy going out from that, too. So apparently thereís a lot going on thatís not visible to the normal eyes.
Q:††††† I think it also underscores the importance of touch. In nursing homes, where they keep the two sexes apart and donít let them intermingle, there is a much higher death rate and at earlier ages, whereas in the ones where the old people are allowed to do whatever they feel like doing and intermingle, and even have sexual experiences, thatís not the case.
RK:†† Ninety-year-old people fall in love, too.
Q:††††† Thatís true. And they tend to have a healthier existence there. So touch is important.
Q:††††† It reminds me of a study done by Ashley Montague at a big hospital in New York in the `30ís. The hospital had a really high mortality rate among the newborn premature babies, but there was one ward where they were surviving. An old lady who was a volunteer picked them up and talked to the babies, washed them and kind of played with them and things like that. The mortality rate dropped significantly. Now theyíre back to putting premies into their little cubicles and completely isolating them.
Q:††††† Say thereís going to be a car crash and a person has some good karma coming. Is it Angels or Archangels Who could stop the car or direct things so the car doesnít crash and cause some injuries?
RK:†† Itís my feeling that itís Angels.
Q:††††† How far ahead would you have to plan something like that to make sure that some Angel is going to be there for you when you need Him? Thatís a pretty tall request to have satisfied.
RK:†† If youíre aware itís going to happen, itís amazing how well you can send out a help signal with very high wattage.
Q:††††† But if this is happening on the spot, you can barely have time to see whatís about to happen.
RK:†† Remember, time is very different so far as Angels are concerned. And thought does not travel throughout the Universe in accordance with the inverse square law diminishing the strength of your plea. The thought arrives just as strong as it was sent. It doesnít make any difference if itís to another galaxy because thereís no time limit on it. Itís instantaneous.
Q:††††† I believe at one time you said different levels of Higher Beings answer different kinds of prayers. How can a Higher Being intercept? Say, Theyíre doing third-shift prayer answering or something like that.
RK:†† Most people direct their prayers to God. The really important ones can go to God. But if God had to answer all of those things, He wouldnít have time for anything. So thereís a whole hierarchy set up for answering prayer. There are some things that Archangels have to deal with, whereas some requests are passed down to Angels to answer, and some things Adepts are competent to handle.
Q:††††† Thereís a regular structured system for that purpose?
RK:†† Right. And by whatever automatic means there is, the requests are switched from the Big Boy to whoever can answer it.
Q:††††† So somebody has to make a split-second decision.
RK:†† I donít think itís done by decision. I think itís all automatic.
Q:††††† Even though thereís an Ego involved in answering. Whatís the automatic part then?
RK:†† I donít know exactly how that system is set up, but whoever is available and has the power to handle that particular problem receives the information instantly. We talked about an antís brain. What about a communication system that works even better than a brain because it works on a different plane of existence? Why should it be so difficult to figure out that thereís some kind of a universal communication system that operates on an entirely different plane of existence? If God is in charge of all of the galaxiesówhich I have to presume is soóthen that requires an awful lot of organization among various levels of subordinates to handle the whole thing.
Q:††††† And interconnects with all the planes of existence somehow.
RK:†† Most people who delve deeply into the science of astronomy or subatomic physics eventually come to the conclusion that the Universe was created by an Intelligence. Thatís a very common, independent conclusion by scientists. It could not have just happened because it is so thoroughly complex and so organized and can replicate itself over, and over, and over again. Somebody had to design it. And Theyíre pretty sure it wasnít a human being. Everything in the Universe left to itself tends to entropy. But thereís one thing which goes against entropy, and thatís life, because it is organizing and growing. If life were just on the physical plane, that doesnít take into account the binding energies on higher planes which make it all possible. What feeds all this? What makes it continue?
Q:††††† Thatís good evidence for some creative force outside of the physical plane.
Q:††††† I was just wondering how karma gets manifested. Do I, on some level, know what kind of karma I have and I precipitate certain things to occur in my environment so I can deal with that karma or is there something in the Universe that sets up these situations so that karma can be settled?
RK:†† The answer to that is, both.
Q:††††† So for example, my intuition tells me that one particular day Iíve got to drive really slowly around the corner because some other driver is going to come whipping around and hit me. And I do, and boom, there he comes around the corner. So that day my intuition told me right. So that was maybe my Higher Self telling me that I didnít need that karma. Then another day my intuition didnít tell me that there was a cop around the corner to give me a speeding ticket. So that would be karma; is that correct, somehow manifesting itself in both cases in different ways?
RK:†† Thatís two of thousands of examples. But I marvel at how is an independent record kept of all that? And how is that record kept over thousands of years so that ultimately itís paid off?
Q:††††† A giant computer in the sky?
RK:†† Literally, there is a giant computer, but itís not really in the sky. Information on a computer disc, for instance, canít be seen. Itís just in magnetic domains. Do you think it might be possible that something analogous to that could exist on the Etheric Plane or the Astral Plane or Mental Plane? There is such a system, and it all records automatically. Somebody doesnít have to be up in Heaven making jottings in a book or punching data into a computer.
Q:††††† Are there Beings on the Higher Planes who bring about karma-balancing situations?
RK:†† In a way, yes. Theyíre called Lords of Karma. They canít diminish or increase whatever good or bad karma you have coming, but They can delay or hasten it. Let me give you an example. Say, for instance, you murdered somebody in a prior incarnation. And so you enter into incarnation with the Egoic knowledge that somewhere along the line youíve got to be murdered at about the same age as the person whom you murdered. Since this is something you donít remember after you come into incarnation; you decide to be a doctor or something like that, and you start educating yourself and you learn a tremendous number of things, all of which are really going to benefit you if you continue in this line. The Lords of Karma can say, ďThis guy is really on a roll. Heís increasing his ability to achieve Initiation on the track heís going on right now. To let him get knocked off now would really be detrimental in the long run; letís delay balancing his karma for twenty or thirty years so he can really grab hold of the knowledge heís gaining.Ē
Q:††††† But letís say our guy needs to get himself murdered now. How would that particular person know to be at a certain place and a certain time to make that happen?
RK:†† He does not have to know. It will find you!
A Greek philosopher, whose name I cannot remember at the moment, was walking down the beach and he was killed by a turtle falling out of the sky and hitting his head. Now, there are a number of large predator birds who will scoop up different kinds of marine animals and drop them on the rocks in order to kill them and break their shells. There was a bird that dropped this missile, and our philosopher was under it instead of a rock.
Q:††††† He had that all planned?
RK:†† Somewhere along the line it worked out. Imagine the combination of trajectories that have to be just right. The bird is flying. Heís walking in another direction, and the hapless turtle, of course, is falling in an arc.
Q:††††† So that bird not being an Ego, could be manipulated by anyone on a Higher Plane, right?
Q:††††† Is it possible to overcome a karmic debt by offsetting it with good works?
RK:†† Oh, certainly.
Q:††††† So if somebody, for example, was a pirate during one lifetime and killed a number of people, in another lifetime he was a shipís doctor, he might do enough good so that he wouldnít have to experience his death?
RK:†† Sure. Thatís another argument for the Lords of Karma delaying things, too.
Q:††††† There are people who have done things and made major discoveries that physically benefit thousands or millions of people. That could offset a whole lot.
RK:†† And it does.